??? are you just resorting to bringing up completely unrelated shit to escape embarrassment? I imagined context could make it clear but mentioning “former communist countries” I was speaking of communist countries in history which formerly existed, but now no longer exist. If I meant countries which were communist but now aren’t, I would have specified “formerly communist countries”. Why would you even think it was implying that a country being communist in the past means it’s leftist in the present? How do you reason that?
Edit: lol apparently @cypherpunks@lemmy.ml or an admin is removing the replies because they speak of Lenin’s Gulags, dekulakization, and Mao’s Laogai. Funny what kind of comments get removed by .ml mods; apparently not comments trying to suddenly bring antisemitism into the conversation, and not comments pretending that saying sometimes in history leftist governments have interned kids means I must both be anti-leftist and making excuses for the US’ treatment of immigrants.
How do you, with a straight face, say “criticizing a communist leader/government means you hate jews”? You are simply resorting to making up “you’re an antisemite” out of thin air to invalidate others. I have literally not once mentioned judaism. I don’t even know if I’ve mentioned jews in my entire comment history before you randomly started blaming jews for alleged “anticommunism”.
You are using discrimination against jews as a tool to attempt silencing others. You accusing everyone else of being an “antisemite” is your way of avoiding your own responsibility and putting others in a box. Let me guess, you support the Israeli genocide of Palestinians and use “antisemite” to defend it too?
Are you not literally claiming that those nasty jews communists had a habit of kidnapping kids? Or are you going to plead ignorance about the connection between antisemitism and anticommunism?
Your literal words were
actually it seems pretty common in former and current communist countries lol…
Not, “it seems like it was pretty common in former communist countries”
Please, find me sources for these massive instances of child kidnapping.
Also, love it when liberals are like “oh, sure, we put kids in concentration camps, but so do socialist countries(unsourced)” aren’t y’all the kind to complain about “whatabaoutism”?
Are you not literally claiming that those nasty jews communists had a habit of kidnapping kids?
Lol what the fuck, you’re trying so hard to make this an anti-semitism thing. You are quite literally making a last-ditch attempt to invalidate others simply by pulling “yeah I bet you hate jews (based on nothing)” out of your ass because you lack any real argument.
“If you criticize a communist or communist government, you’re antisemitic”. My god.
Or are you going to plead ignorance about the connection between antisemitism and anticommunism?
“Anticommunism”? I’m a socialist you imbecile, I love communists (not the totalitarian ones) even if it’s not how I would describe my exact ideology. You trying to pull “you say X communist government did bad thing, so you must be both anticommunist and an antisemite!” How do you even rationalize saying I’m somehow attacking Judaism by saying internment camps were a thing in the early USSR.
Not, “it seems like it was pretty common in former communist countries”
Look buddy, you can try to act like a sovcit and pretend language is magic that has to have very specific wording or else it doesn’t work. The frame I was speaking in was historically, so I used different conjugations for the copula. I’m sorry that you misinterpreted it.
Please, find me sources for these massive instances of child kidnapping.
I’m sorry but if you can’t find out how the early Soviet government separated families and sent children to Gulags (created under Lenin), that’s completely your fault. Specifically targetting children really ramped up in the 30s after Lenin with the Soviet terror (I’d like you to argue that the Soviet government wasn’t leftist then either), but even before then all ages of people were still interned into prisons, concentration camps, & labour camps. A process that had plenty of child kidnapping was dekulakization – it got really bad with Stalin starting around 1929, although it started over a decade earlier at a much smaller scale (usually just confiscating property, but kulaks still could be thrown in prison). I can provide you sources that children were put into gulags during the Soviet Union’s “still-communist” years if you really want, but if you actually know anything about the history of communist governments you would already know about Gulags, dekulakization, the punishments of “traitors to the revolution” including anarchists (and their families) that fought alongside the Bolsheviks.
I’m not even sure why specifically children is what you’re focusing on – internment, in the USSR and the US and otherwise, has always been “kidnapping kids” and forcing them into camps.
Also, love it when liberals are like “oh, sure, we put kids in concentration camps, but so do socialist countries(unsourced)” aren’t y’all the kind to complain about “whatabaoutism”?
Ok now you’re just making shit up. I did not pick sides, or imply that one excuses the other. I don’t care about “what about X”, I am telling you the fact that internment camps and genocide doesn’t make something unable to be left (especially when I’m saying Biden’s policies in general were more left than the US previously was and not “Biden’s policies are left”). Throughout history, some communist governments have perpetuated it, unless you genuinely think that the government under Mao and Lenin, and pre-WW2 post-Lenin USSR, wasn’t communist/leftist.
If you really are questioning whether communist leaders like Lenin and Mao created and interned people into concentration camps then holy crap… Also I didn’t even mention it in this comment, but Mao Zedong created Laogai, the “re-education and labour camps” modelled after Gulag. You know, the ones used for political & ethnic prisoners, although not exclusively. That itself is enough said. You also have Trại cải tạo which were the same concept, although I’m pretty sure that was just soldiers and politicians, and UMAPs.
I don’t know if this needs to be stated clearly, especially since I already said it, but putting people into camps is bad, and genocide is bad. There is no world in which Biden supporting these things is not bad. How you tried to turn “putting kids in camps doesn’t make Biden’s overall policies not left compared to the previous government” into “Gulags excuse Biden interning children, also jews are inferior” is beyond me.
??? are you just resorting to bringing up completely unrelated shit to escape embarrassment? I imagined context could make it clear but mentioning “former communist countries” I was speaking of communist countries in history which formerly existed, but now no longer exist. If I meant countries which were communist but now aren’t, I would have specified “formerly communist countries”. Why would you even think it was implying that a country being communist in the past means it’s leftist in the present? How do you reason that?
Edit: lol apparently @cypherpunks@lemmy.ml or an admin is removing the replies because they speak of Lenin’s Gulags, dekulakization, and Mao’s Laogai. Funny what kind of comments get removed by .ml mods; apparently not comments trying to suddenly bring antisemitism into the conversation, and not comments pretending that saying sometimes in history leftist governments have interned kids means I must both be anti-leftist and making excuses for the US’ treatment of immigrants.
How do you, with a straight face, say “criticizing a communist leader/government means you hate jews”? You are simply resorting to making up “you’re an antisemite” out of thin air to invalidate others. I have literally not once mentioned judaism. I don’t even know if I’ve mentioned jews in my entire comment history before you randomly started blaming jews for alleged “anticommunism”.
You are using discrimination against jews as a tool to attempt silencing others. You accusing everyone else of being an “antisemite” is your way of avoiding your own responsibility and putting others in a box. Let me guess, you support the Israeli genocide of Palestinians and use “antisemite” to defend it too?
Are you not literally claiming that those nasty
jewscommunists had a habit of kidnapping kids? Or are you going to plead ignorance about the connection between antisemitism and anticommunism?Your literal words were
Not, “it seems like it was pretty common in former communist countries”
Please, find me sources for these massive instances of child kidnapping.
Also, love it when liberals are like “oh, sure, we put kids in concentration camps, but so do socialist countries(unsourced)” aren’t y’all the kind to complain about “whatabaoutism”?
Lol what the fuck, you’re trying so hard to make this an anti-semitism thing. You are quite literally making a last-ditch attempt to invalidate others simply by pulling “yeah I bet you hate jews (based on nothing)” out of your ass because you lack any real argument.
“If you criticize a communist or communist government, you’re antisemitic”. My god.
“Anticommunism”? I’m a socialist you imbecile, I love communists (not the totalitarian ones) even if it’s not how I would describe my exact ideology. You trying to pull “you say X communist government did bad thing, so you must be both anticommunist and an antisemite!” How do you even rationalize saying I’m somehow attacking Judaism by saying internment camps were a thing in the early USSR.
Look buddy, you can try to act like a sovcit and pretend language is magic that has to have very specific wording or else it doesn’t work. The frame I was speaking in was historically, so I used different conjugations for the copula. I’m sorry that you misinterpreted it.
I’m sorry but if you can’t find out how the early Soviet government separated families and sent children to Gulags (created under Lenin), that’s completely your fault. Specifically targetting children really ramped up in the 30s after Lenin with the Soviet terror (I’d like you to argue that the Soviet government wasn’t leftist then either), but even before then all ages of people were still interned into prisons, concentration camps, & labour camps. A process that had plenty of child kidnapping was dekulakization – it got really bad with Stalin starting around 1929, although it started over a decade earlier at a much smaller scale (usually just confiscating property, but kulaks still could be thrown in prison). I can provide you sources that children were put into gulags during the Soviet Union’s “still-communist” years if you really want, but if you actually know anything about the history of communist governments you would already know about Gulags, dekulakization, the punishments of “traitors to the revolution” including anarchists (and their families) that fought alongside the Bolsheviks.
I’m not even sure why specifically children is what you’re focusing on – internment, in the USSR and the US and otherwise, has always been “kidnapping kids” and forcing them into camps.
Ok now you’re just making shit up. I did not pick sides, or imply that one excuses the other. I don’t care about “what about X”, I am telling you the fact that internment camps and genocide doesn’t make something unable to be left (especially when I’m saying Biden’s policies in general were more left than the US previously was and not “Biden’s policies are left”). Throughout history, some communist governments have perpetuated it, unless you genuinely think that the government under Mao and Lenin, and pre-WW2 post-Lenin USSR, wasn’t communist/leftist.
If you really are questioning whether communist leaders like Lenin and Mao created and interned people into concentration camps then holy crap… Also I didn’t even mention it in this comment, but Mao Zedong created Laogai, the “re-education and labour camps” modelled after Gulag. You know, the ones used for political & ethnic prisoners, although not exclusively. That itself is enough said. You also have Trại cải tạo which were the same concept, although I’m pretty sure that was just soldiers and politicians, and UMAPs.
I don’t know if this needs to be stated clearly, especially since I already said it, but putting people into camps is bad, and genocide is bad. There is no world in which Biden supporting these things is not bad. How you tried to turn “putting kids in camps doesn’t make Biden’s overall policies not left compared to the previous government” into “Gulags excuse Biden interning children, also jews are inferior” is beyond me.