This will probably be the biggest competition the Steam Deck has within the handheld PC space.
Most noteworthy is that windows is finally focusing on providing a decent handheld experience, including booting straight to a controller friendly interface, and reducing background processes for better fps and battery.
Edit: The handheld Xbox UI will.come to all windows PCs, but it’s not clear if the reduced performance bloat version will be available. It sounds like only Xbox branded devices may get the full benefit of optimized windows.
It’s also the ugliest handheld PC yet (imo), but I can appreciate that they’re pushing for comfort over looks.
Not sure about diving in… More like dipping their toes. I think it’s great that they’re making windows more usable on different types of devices. To be honest though, all of this sounds like Windows 8, especially the bit about limiting background processes. People were pissed about it then, but I guess maybe now they’ll like it if it makes gaming better (and really, it probably makes everything better. There are so many background processes on my PC, it’s ridiculous).
I’d like to see a Microsoft branded handheld. I’m curious if it would be Xbox or Surface branded…
Embrace, extend, and extinguish
this is like 2 years too late. microsoft couldve done something to salvage the xbox brand by competing with the steam deck around when the rog ally first came out. “this device is 100% compatible with windows games because it IS a windows machine!”
steamOS and bazzite are now in a really stable spot and the enthusiasts are already settled in.
This is going to appeal more to regular consumers over enthusiasts.
Microsoft has no integrity left. I’m all for competition. If you have an xbox and this is as friendly a combination as the deck is to a bazzite/any Linux really and the Ally is what you choose, fuck yeah get your game on. For me, I’ll never trust any Microsoft product.
7" non-OLED screen is a hard no from me, regardless of everything else.
Tell that to Nintendo and their fans.
So… if this device does not come with some kind of even more locked down than normal bootloader/uefi/tpm system…
We know that SteamOS is roughly 15% faster at running games, 15% more fps in a same for same hardware and game settings comparison.
They say its running a stripped down (aka debloated) version of Win 11, but frankly, I call bullshit.
Sure, it may take a bit for proper driver support to be developed for the new Z2 apus… but uh…
You can just buy this thing, wipe out windows, flash SteamOS or Bazzite onto it, and get more FPS, and now you basically exist in the SteamOS ecosystem (or also GOG or whatever).
At that point, MSFT has functionally built a product that will be used on their competitor’s ecosystem… when the whole point of this thing is to keep people in the Xbox ecosystem.
Uh, also… does this thing come with CoPilot?
Is it just gonna be or at least be capable of … snapping automatic acreen grabs of everything you are doing, all the time?
Also, don’t forget to keep paying for Xbox
LiveGamepass… for the privelege… of all of this?I don’t think there’s going to be a bunch of difference with the Z2 over the Z1, and you’ve gotta remember that they’re just 8000/9000 CPUs with Radeon graphics. AMD open sources their drivers too.
AMD open sources their drivers too.
Ah, right, duh.
Ok so yeah, uh… the Z2 Extreme supposedly is going to have some kind of ‘AI’ functionality or additional component… god knows what that means…
Theoretically it could be more difficult for open source devs to fully leverage that, even if the drivers are open source…
But yeah, for the rest of it, it probably would not take much time at all given that Bazzite and SteamOS already run on the last generation of the same chips.
EDIT: On second thought: I wouldn’t put it past MSFT to go out of their way to invent an entirely new input controller interface for the buttons and thumbsticks and such, that would require open source devs to reverse engineer it a bit to properly interface with it.
There’s two versions of the Z2E, the one that is labelled “AI” has an NPU. More than any LLM crap, those NPUs can be really good for local ML features that increase accessibility for people. As for how well that’ll be supported on Linux, I’m not sure.
On the point of* your edit, MSFT have said that it’s going to support third-party stores directly in their game interface. I think it’s fairly unlikely that they’re going to break from their already exisiting Xbox controller input scheme. They already have a monopoly there, even third-party devices like the Legion Go use the Xbox layout and input scheme.
They also seem to be pivoting towards trying to make “Xbox PC” something to replace Steam (see the end of the Super Meat Boy 3d trailer).
I wouldn’t be surprised if they try and lock out developers from putting games on Steam and being exclusive to “Xbox PC”.
Worked so well for Xbox Live for Windows…
…and this risk is exactly the reason we got SteamOS, Deck and Proton.
It is hilarious to see Microsoft put so much effort into proving to bystanders that what Valve did was necessary for the industry.
I dunno, I kind of believe them when they claim they seriously debloated Windows. I bet they actually used SteamOS benchmarks to sway the higher ups to be allowed to do this. It will be interesting to see benchmarks when this thing is released.
Although I also believe that they would lock down the bootloader. And not release this mode to the general public. They haven’t been very lenient with the media people testing these things. They weren’t even allowed make their own videos of the interface or games running on them.
I mean, I can’t of course prove anything, but uh.
I used to work for MSFT.
I very much doubt thet are capable of meaningfully streamlining Windows.
And uh also no, no, the SteamOS Benchmarks came out less than a week before this announcement.
This announcement means they have been working on this project for a year or so, at least, and just haven’t publically mentioned anything definitive untill now.
They already have the whole thing designed and agreements worked out with all the mfg partners involved.
You don’t do a public announcement for a release in a few months unless you’ve got the assembly line and logistics systems in place ready to start cranking these things out after maybe a few more weeks of minor touchups.
You don’t just have a single big meeting and then BLAM! That is not how this works.
Most likely, around the time the SteamDeck OLED came out, as in you can buy one now, came out… thats around the time MSFT had at least some higher ups and teams start brainstorming making their own, and then at some point about a year ago, they decided to actually do it.
I’m pretty sure that this “streamlined, gaming-first” development team will last right up to the moment they come into conflict with any other corporate goal.
You’re not doing AI-first? You’re not injecting Bing into every experience? Where are all the ads? Oops, so sorry, your role has been made redundant.
Pretty much exactly.
There are so, so many tech bros who build their identity around not being replacable… when in fact, they are.
Then their identity collapses and they become crypto bros, some other kind of obvious start-up scammers…
And uh also no, no, the SteamOS Benchmarks came out less than a week before this announcement.
I meant that they maybe used SteamOS (or a similar distribution) on whatever prototype they had to make some benchmarks to compare against stock Windows or their own Windows build.
But you seem to have better insight into the way they work.
Sorry, I edited in more details after you replied.
But uh yeah, as you yourself have said… MSFT is very good at being secretive and opaque… even internally, there is a massive culture of compartmentalizing information, to say nothing of outward facing info.
I would say that untill independent reviewers get their hands on these things to do teardowns and benchmarks, trust nothing, all their claims are just marketing BS.
Im not saying this version of Windows won’t be better than mainline Windows, in terms of game performance.
I am saying I’ll eat a sock if it ends up being even as efficient as SteamOS or Bazzite in a same hardware same game same settings frame rate test of 20ish modern games.
I fail to understand why hardware manufacturers are so afraid of dual track pads and 4 back buttons. Do they think that including these features will reduce sales?
I love the trackpads on my steam deck, but I think the best part is steam input. Having so much control on their behavior and being able to map various kinds of menus make them so powerful!
The same trackpads with shitty software wouldn’t be half as useful.
I didn’t think I would use the trackpads much, but now that I have them, I can’t move to a handheld that doesn’t have them. They are just too convenient.
Can’t look back since I got my first Steam Controller. Once you get used to them trackpads are way more comfortable (and durable) than joysticks. I’d be happy with a controller with no joysticks too. Much easier to throw in a bag and take for a trip.
Conversely I bought a Steam Deck specifically because of the trackpads but I find I only ever use them on the rare occasion that I need to go to desktop mode. I love my Deck but I’ve discovered that could easily live without the trackpads if they weren’t there.
I can’t and won’t play any first person perspective game with a regular controller. Track pad + gyro is so much fun! It love to at least see capacitive touch sticks + gyro adopted by other manufacturers.
I end up using the stick for movement, the pad for aiming.
And, due to a hand/wrist injury… switched the aiming to the left pad, and movement to the right stick, and then the right trigger is still fire, and the right track pad is a 4 way gated set of ‘buttons’.
In desktop, ive got the left pad moving the mouse, up click on the right pad is left click, down click on the right pad is right click… and then any kind of click on the left pad is screen zoom.
Yep, its weird, but I love it lol.
The only thing they could improve, at this point, imo… is a way to adjust the left right up down sizes of the zones for the edge scrolling to work on a pad.
It works perfectly when you point your finger at it at a perpendicular angle, but with a thumb, the surface area of the thumb makes contact over a different shape, so thats why theres so many reports of edge scrolling ‘not working’ for people with certain sized/shaped thumbs and grips.
I tried so hard to make that combo work for me, but ended up back with the sticks. Maybe I need to try something other than Half-Life 2.
Mainly I use them for more keybindings but they are essential for that.
It’s so cool to play the old X-Wing and TIE Fighter games and be able to control them with some custom HUDs.
The cyberpunk thing is, if we were actually fighting in a resistance and you needed to practice flying TIE Fighters to know how to steal one or fight against them, you would probably be playing an emulator of an outdated but still very good empire TIE fighter simulator on a third party device :)
Rebel af
Its much more real than you think.
… What do you think an FPV aerial drone control set up looks like?
…
Apparently, the way they’re doing it now is that many of the drones just have an unwinding spool of fiber optic cabling, instead of being wireless…
Because you can’t jam that, can’t hijack it.
So… kinda like a TOW missile.
Also… thats why it was called Operation Spider’s Web.
Gossamer strands, mile and miles long.
Yeah the strategic goal of the operation better be to create a realtime DAS acoustic/seismic sensor network and that data better be given to geologists after the fact because otherwise that is a massive waste.
I’m sorry, I don’t follow… what?
I am talking about the mass FPV drone attacks Ukraine just did inside Russia, by rigging up a bunch of semi-trucks as essentially road borne aircraft carriers.
Well, it makes the hardware more complicated to manufacture, more error prone, more bigger, more costly. The software becomes also a little bit more complicated. Maybe they are afraid that trackpads wouldn’t appeal to normies, because it looks weird first and most “console” gamers might want to use a “normal” gamepad like handheld, like any other handheld. Trackpads look so different and weird compared to the Switch in example. Being similar to the Switch in the look might be a reason for them to exclude it. But most importantly, it makes it more costly. So, I can see reasons for this.
Having said this, I would never buy a PC handheld without a single trackpad again. I love them (not in the literal sense BTW :D). Compared with good software for input, like Steam Input, they become invaluable.
I understand the trackpads somewhat since they take up space, but the lack of back buttons is inexcusable.
Personally though, I’d buy a trackpad only deck (maybe with a real d-pad) but I know I’m in the minority on that one.
Personally though, I’d buy a trackpad only deck (maybe with a real d-pad) but I know I’m in the minority on that one.
I can’t understand this. There are a few fans of the original Steam Controller (I have one too from launch of it) and they seem to be okay for the missing d-pad. Maybe if you play games where d-pad is never needed, I can see it. But games like Fighting Games, classic Platformer or anything that requires precise single clicks (even menus, like RPGs) are better with d-pad in my opinion. And if you are a fan of emulation like me, then there is no discussion, a d-pad is a must.
Do you really never use the d-pad?
Well, I did say “maybe with a real d-pad”, it’s just the thumbsticks that aren’t necessary.
I actually did play with the Steam Controller for years using the trackpad as d-pad. It was more of a comfort thing that made it less than ideal which was due to the shape/texture of the original SC, but I could live without it personally if it’s done right.
I’ve even played shmups with it, with the right settings, but I get there is a learning curve and its easier to use a physical d-pad.
Oh, I’m sorry, I completely misread that part about “with a real d-pad”. Not sure what happened there.
Trackpads cost “money”, and besides you already have a touchscreen.
The thing that really makes me jealous is the Freesync panel. The secret to getting a battery-powered GPU to keep up with the screen is to stop making it keep up with the screen.
@tiberius @Fubarberry If they put trackpads will scare away many users. The handheld needs to look like a console. Many gamers don’t want to go into PC gaming territory so xbox is wrapping this one as a “console”.
What an impressive way to dismiss the behaviors of others as “fear”. And in the face of no data even. So brave!
Shit
Ah shit Microsoft responded to steamOS. If this this matches or whoops linux in performance its going to make it very hard to convince people to move away from Microsoft.
It probably won’t whoop Linux, but if it can at least get the performance closer, we could have an excitingly competitive handheld OS market.
You are sitting here saying finally a competitive os market but the competition has pretty much just ended.
They would both have different strengths, so handheld Windows will never snuff out SteamOS when it has a pretty good head start already. Not to mention that any windows handheld will be more expensive than a SteamOS one unless Microsoft is willing to give the license away for free.
SteamOS has had a good start but its not a headstart. Its still a minority OS in the handheld space. Now that you can get a slick UI with good preformance, 100% software compatibility, im failing to see the advantages that will draw windows users onto steam.
Im a linux users so I place a lot of value in the freedom of the ecosystem but most non linux users dont think about that or care. SteamOS needed this win to convince people to leave the microsoft ecosystem and now microsoft has closed the gap.
Steam Deck sold about 3.7 million units, while the handheld PCs have sold around 6 million since the Steam Deck was launched. I don’t know about you, but that doesn’t sound like a minority to me unless you’re counting the Switch, as well.
However, neither this Xbox handheld and the Steam Deck will be able to even compare to the volume being sold by Nintendo, so what’s the point of even including it in this comparison? We might as well include Android gaming in that comparison, then, which should dwarf everything else by comparison.
Fizz was comparing SteamOS vs Windows market share, which SteamOS/Linux is just 2.69% compared to windows, now with new windows for handhelds there’s a risk that Microsoft could further solidify its monopoly in the PC ecosystem. This development could pose a significant challenge to Valve’s efforts to compete with SteamOS/Linux, potentially stifling its growth in the handheld gaming space.
Bro, he said a minority in the handheld space. Why would you use the number that included everything that is not handheld?
Competition in the handheld gaming device is good. Why would we want another category where Valve has a monopoly in?
I doubt Microsoft has what it takes to completely overcome Linux’s advantages, and the competition will not stifle SteamOS’s growth because it is a growing market. Both handheld OS can occupy its own niche that they are good at.
