The modern Republican party is nothing at all like the older incarnations. e.g. George Bush was a progressive!

Okay I need to catch up with this new info, but at worst it seems irrelevant, and at best increases the stress on the admin team to constantly often receive actual irl death threats that people would like to murder them.

Luminous for instance (a) called MrKaplan a Zionist, and (b) said death to all such, and therefore © since by transitivity with A->B and B->C, and given both are true plus A is true, then we can infer that C is true as well, i.e. Luminous wishes death upon MrKaplan (among MANY others). It’s fairly clear? Even though buried in the modlog, and regardless of whether MrKaplan actually is what he has been called here or not.

Mr Kaplan’s response after that is on him, but it is worth noting that he received a real actual death threat levied in his direction by an admin of an instance. Instances are not “entitled” to be federated with anyone at all - it happens at the discretion of the recipient.

Just noticed nobody had corrected you on this. It was Deceptichum who placed a Swastika onto an icon of the FHF, not Luminous.

Oh, thank you.

Constant, really?

I would be willing to retract the word choice. Something along the lines of being problematic to the admins of LW to not want to have to deal with them?

Ironically the Swastika coming from a second person besides Luminous helps to illustrate that point, where it was not just a single person, even an admin. Of course, I am not an admin myself, so all I am really saying is that it seems believable to me that the LW is stressed out of their gourd by all the attacks from people saying that they want to kill them. It makes sense to me to want to block them, without having to to through each community one-by-one. Moreover, then subsequently having to constantly maintain that as new ones emerge.

Death threats have that effect upon people. Sometimes the recipients simply… get tired of receiving them?

That is literally not possible except on his own instance, PieFed.social. He owns the instance, he calls the shots on it. You could spin up your own instance running PieFed software and call all the same shots on it, or join any of the other PieFed instances like PieFed.zip.

It would be like saying that you should not use Lemmy since Dessalines removes a ton of comments. I mean… perhaps true, but there are instances other than lemmy.ml, and the Lemmy software is kinda fucking awesome entirely separate from the abusive moderation practices of its instance admin team.

I am respecting your earlier, now-deleted comment that started off with “This is the last comment I am ever making to you.”, before you made this other comment after that.

Because apparently I can read what is happening out of your own screenshots, rather than read into them my preconceived biases?

Your very screenshot here begins with “at this point no decision is made on how we continue in terms of federation. this is not something i’m going to decide on my own without sufficient discussion in the team”, and it then immediately in the next paragraph continues with “the original defederation happened…”

These words mean that the topic under discussion in that screenshot is NOT the original defederation, but rather whether AN (&dbzer0) should be re-federated, which ended up happening. So for one thing the context to the part highlighted refers to that newly current discussion, and for another it (i.e. the lack of proof) also refers to the sentence immediately prior to it, about the names targeting people rather than the ideology. In this new context those words take on entirely new meaning, but do not negate every single fact that came before - especially MrKaplan is unlikely to have forgotten the original reason for defederation.

You also shared this screenshot:

I don’t want to edit your image so instead I’ll type out rather than highlight the relevant part, since you don’t want to read it all again:

MrKaplan: “in the end this is however not a decision i will be doing alone, nor was the defederation a decision that wasn’t supported by others, despite their misrepresentation of this being me taking total power to fuck over others.” (emphasis added)

However, I feel the goalposts keep shifting here, b/c to quote my own words:

I suppose you are calling MrKaplan a liar since your own screenshot mentions that it was discussed internally and not made solely by one person. It seems his word against yours, with no evidence currently presented either way.

(again, emphasis added here) To reiterate yet again, I was discussing whether the defederation had happened by MrKaplan entirely alone, vs. him consulting others, and I had indicated the word “evidence” meaning that the decision was made without consulting others. You responded with whether he had evidence to defederate the instance or not - but that is not the same topic.

Well, I suppose the topic can bring forth strong emotions. Though that is precisely what you are accusing MrKaplan of - acting on emotion rather than logic?

Anyway the communication of all of this by the LW team was definitely done exceedingly poorly - we can agree on that much, and the rest will have to wait until another day, as the decision to re-federate was already made. You’ve won: enjoy it:-D.

seem to be taking criticism of Zionism personally

Because Luminous both called the admin team Zionists and also placed a Swastika onto an icon of the FHF. It’s like calling someone a “traitor” - it doesn’t have to be true, it can just be a pretext to murder them regardless.

Also, people keep ignoring the fact that it’s not merely the death threats levied against the admin team that are problematic, but rather the constant calls for murder shared from both AN and db0 users (as well as ML), although the call for the murder of specifically the FHF team does seem to be the straw that broke the camel’s back here, regarding AN.

We always needed to do that, since decentralization was always the entire point of the Fediverse. Especially now that PieFed has virtually solved the fragmentation issue, at least for people on PieFed instances. It takes effort though.

Luminous was an admin at the time. Then, Luminous stepped down from being an admin. Then, as you mentioned, LW re-federated AN once more.

If Luminous had merely been a mod, this could have been handled by blocking, but since they were an admin - at the time - it could only be handled by defederation.

I suppose you are calling MrKaplan a liar since your own screenshot mentions that it was discussed internally and not made solely by one person. It seems his word against yours, with no evidence currently presented either way.

When it comes to the whole ‘murder all zionists thing’, this just kind of proves the point that you are a zionist in the first place.

No it doesn’t. Luminous outright called Mr. Kaplan a Zionist, and drew a Swastika onto the logo of the FHF. I responded elsewhere in more detail but wanted to isolate this point here: you seem to assume that Mr Kaplan felt called out due to a guilty conscience or whatever, but that is not what the facts of the matter show in this situation. Luminous very clearly called for the actual irl murder of everyone in the FHF.

And then, in their own words, preemptively banned MrKaplan.

There’s also the fact that you’re silencing voices, refusing to allow people to speak

Setting aside for the moment how Luminous abused their admin powers to do precisely that, and also btw did it first (Mr Kaplan’s actions were taken in response to those of Luminous), yes that is exactly correct: the very many many many calls for outright, actual, irl murder coming from AN are now silenced, not visible to the users of LW.

Anyone who wants to can still read them ofc, but LW provides that moderation service to anyone who would like to remain on LW and receive it.

Not all of us are spoiling for a fight 100% of the time, and sometimes people just want to browse some memes once in awhile, ya’know? Without having to wade through calls for murder I mean. The rights of everyone on AN are nowhere being curtailed, i.e. they still retain full rights to speak as freely as they wish, but LW is done platforming such from them, echoing and amplifying and storing those messages on their machines the same as all of the other content on the Threadiverse. Like hexbear, AN got too problematic to have to try to figure out which communities were safer for consumption vs. which were too problematic, so since the numerous calls for violence were not being toned down and even being led by their admin team, the entire instance was defederated from. That’s not a witch hunt, that’s a response to very clear extremist rhetoric. LW users should not be forced into having to read MAGA-like language, even the leftist version that is supposedly on the “other side” (yet seems to behave so identically to it that I can barely tell a difference anymore).

Fwiw, this current situation is not remotely comparable to the one with JordanLund.

For one thing, it was Luminous who preemptively banned Mr Kaplan, according to their very own words:

I banned MrKaplan preemptively from !anarchymemes@anarchist.nexus, as I do anyone who displays zionist tendencies. the ban reason was for “zionism, genocide apologia”.

and buried deep in a mod log (see picture shared by Rimu elsewhere in this thread), Luminous called MrKaplan a Zionist and genocide apologist, while simultaneously calling for the actual irl murder of all such people.

You admitted yourself that you don’t have much knowledge about this new issue. So then why speak up about it, as if you had researched this new matter anywhere close to the degree that you had done the previous one? Your statement comes across as bad blood, allowing yourself to be biased due to past issues with the LW team. Which if that causes you to flee that instance and move to another one then so be it, but why muddy the waters here, at least prior to looking into the current issue so that you know what went on?

Luminous started this witch hunt. Luminous on AN called for the murder of people, even - according to other admins of AN:

Luminous had also posted the FHF icon with a swastika on top to YPTB

Luminous drew the ties between Mr. Kaplan, the FHF, Nazis (unless you will try to claim a more ancient origin usage for the swastika icon?), Zionism, genocide apologists, and the actual irl murder of everyone on the FHF team. Luminous is so much worse than 100 JordanLunds, who afaik may have been a PTB but did not call out for the real, actual, irl MURDER of the people that he disagreed with on the internet? And abusing their admin powers to, again in their very own words, preemptively ban others.

Mr Kaplan’s response to this is not preemptive, it is instead… a “response” to the very clear opening volley of shots sent not merely to Mr. Kaplan but to e.g. the entire FHF team, and as your very own screenshot shows, not done in isolation but mentions being done with the support of several (albeit unnamed) others.

If after RESEARCHING this you feel that you want to make another post about the situation in YPTB, I will read it with great interest. But I think you will find that the situation is much less dramatic once you start reading through all the details, and you may even find yourself having to agree with the LW team on this one, or else make a much smaller fuss about a mere procedural point of the timeline here rather than the ultimate end result.

I am having trouble squaring the various conflicting portions of your statement.

Luminous had also posted the FHF icon with a swastika on top to YPTB

Because the Zionists currently taking potshots at the testicles of Palestinian boys for ethnic cleansing purposes are the very people Luminous was wishing death upon in reality, not Mr Kaplan.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I would expect very few of the testicle potshotters to be using the FHF icon?

You are trying to put words into the mouth of Luminous that they never said - they very clearly levied accusations against specifically the FHF, and as the picture that Rimu showed, specifically named MrKaplan as both a Zionist and a genocide apologist.

Don’t forget how Luminous even outright stated that they “preemptively banned” Mr. Kaplan - i.e. not waiting for a specific event but going ahead of any such in order to enact their agenda - which now seems to be what you are claiming that Mr. Kaplan did, but both the data and the very own words of Luminous state clearly how Luminous was the instigator here.

I banned MrKaplan preemptively from !anarchymemes@anarchist.nexus, as I do anyone who displays zionist tendencies. the ban reason was for “zionism, genocide apologia”.

It is no wonder that Mr. Kaplan felt “called out”, when Luminous very explicitly did such a calling out!!

But now, throughout this thread, I mostly see people blaming Mr. Kaplan, citing how he went out ahead of any specific event and preemptively enacted an action - yet rarely or only briefly acknowledging the actions of Luminous that lead directly to Mr. Kaplan’s response.

i.e. Luminous of AN started a witch hunt, calling Mr. Kaplan a witch, and got defederated in return. Although, if AN truly wants to keep anything that has even remotely touched upon Zionism away from itself, then isn’t being defederated from LW a good thing? Or maybe, just maybe, Luminous did not think through the full ramifications of their decision, before they unilaterally took preemptive action against several mods and even admins of other instances?

It was not a mod, it was the full-on admin team. Hence defederation rather than mere blocking.

All PieFed instances automatically translate links to any other instance into one that works on your own instance - where you can vote & respond with your logged-in account. It is a highly requested feature, desired for many many years on Lemmy but so far available exclusively on PieFed (perhaps some future Lemmy software release will catch up).

To get around the automatic translation, instead of just “clicking” the link, copy the link instead and paste that URL into a browser.

PieFed.social’s server farm just raised their prices through the roof, so I assume the disabling of ability to access it without a login is related to that. Hopefully a temporary measure.

Most other PieFed instances still allow you to see posts without a login - see e.g. https://piefed.zip/c/yepowertrippinbastards/p/1415029/lw-banned-me-and-defederated-an-over-murder-all-zionists-in-my-display-name.

There is a lot to unpack here, but first and foremost, your statement contains numerous inaccuracies - e.g. it’s not merely one user it is an admin - but also I notice it contains numerous instances of inflammatory language, e.g. “Trying to hurt a whole instance and the whole federation concept”. AN can feel absolutely free to do whatever it pleases, so why shouldn’t LW have the same rights, to block calls for literal and actual irl murder levied in their direction? Also, this is hardly the first time that one instance has defederated from another instance - this tiny blip won’t even be noticed by the vast majority of people on LW.

But if you do want to talk about “hurting” someone, I find myself hard pressed to think about a worse fate than to be literally and actually irl murdered, genocided by someone who feels no remorse at all about killing off your entire family, just so that you will suffer?

And you are not even on LW, nor AN - this will not impact you personally in the slightest?

doesn’t matter which instance you land on when you sign in

Please stop spreading this. Whoever said this was incorrect. As you yourself claim, it matters a great deal to pick an instance. So pick one that aligns with your values, so that the moderation practices are those that you can live with. Otherwise, pick a different instance - such as lemmy.dbzer0.com - that you may prefer better. Also, people did not migrate away from Lemm.ee due to its restrictive moderation practices - so if you were claiming this then that would be disinformation. Although it is a strong argument that its LENIENT moderation practices were what led to its downfall, where zero admins across the entirety of all the billions of people on planet Earth could be found that were willing to put up with all the crap spewn in their direction. But this stance only weakens your own argument further, claiming that now LW should do the same as lemm.ee, and thereby end up with the same result?

If you want to do whatever you want, then start your own instance. The LW admins did precisely that, and they do not appreciate having calls for their murder put out by AN. It is their right to defederate from them if they please.

Also, we are still here. Anyone at any time may go to Reddit or X or Bluesky if they prefer, but we will remain. That is our choice. Speaking of choices, where is your acknowledgement of the other side of this - you are chiding the LW admin team, but why not (also?) chide those of AN, who routinely call for murder of people in Western civilizations? If anyone is “fragmenting the Threadiverse”, don’t you think that calls for actual, physical irl murder might be at least partway a cause for such a fragmentation effect? The LW team did not take this action lightly nor did it come out of nowhere - AN was the one that started this? And now LW has to determine its own response in turn.

I accused the “FHF team members of being zionists while simultaneously calling for zionists to be murdered”. but if that were true, then why has MrKaplan not also defederated from lemmy.ml, despite many of their users being just as vocal as I am ?

Oof, this is the part that keeps coming back to haunt every instance across the Threadiverse. The question they raised is: why defederate hexbear.net and Lemmygrad.ml while giving a free pass to lemmy.ml?

There are reasons, though nuance and subtlety seem mostly absent from that YPTB post. When I was growing up, I was taught that my rights ended where someone else’s began, i.e. I can do anything I please, but so too can everyone else. Thus e.g. AN can do whatever it wants, yet as a result if other instances choose to defederate from it as a result, then that is their choice. Why one instance should be free to call for murder while another instance should NOT be free to block that kind of talk looks to me to be pure incel behavior: “my idea of a ‘compromise’ is when the other side does as I say”. aka trolling, or leftist MAGA.

The Threadiverse continues to fracture along the lines of “free speech” instances, which constantly call for the rights of other instances to be curtailed, and instances that enjoy moderating only themselves internally, for the sake of their users happiness since some of us actually are not terminally online and always, Always, ALWAYS looking for a fight.

PieFed.zip and Lemmy.zip are large and great recommend instances famous for how few other instances are blocked, and Lemmy.today I believe blocks none at all.

Edit: your current instance has a medium-length blocklist. You can read about individual decisions in the https://sh.itjust.works/c/main community, e.g. Can we consider degenerating from maga.place and hilariouschaos.com? and Is there a way to block hexbear. Note that the decision to defederate from behaw.org is due to the latter defederating from sh.itjust.works, so to avoid confusion among users as to why posts can only be read one-way.

This seems a flawed understanding of the theory though, if the thinking is that in the entirety of the whole world, no instance will ever defederate with any other instance.

On the contrary, this is normal, expected, and healthy behavior. When one instance refuses to consider the needs of the wider community, then those offended by such have the right to cut it off - e.g. hexbear users troll everyone, their admins protect them, so the instance as a whole gets defederated as a result.

Not for the archive link, immediately below the original Verge one. :-P