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Smackyroon@lemmy.ml to Memes@lemmy.ml · 7 days ago

"China is AuThORItAriAN!" - Liberals

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"China is AuThORItAriAN!" - Liberals

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Smackyroon@lemmy.ml to Memes@lemmy.ml · 7 days ago
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  • Hawanja@lemmy.world
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    6 days ago

    But China is authoritarian.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      6 days ago

      It’s good for the working classes to wield state authority against capitalists and fascists. To not do so would be to allow capitalism to reform, and the alternative is capitalist authority used against the working classes.

      • uienia@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        But China is capitalist.

        • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
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          5 days ago

          Wrong.

          Is China State Capitalist?

          • The backbone of the economy is state ownership and socialist planning. 24 / 25 of the top revenue companies are state-owned and planned. 70% of the top 500 companies are State-owned. 1, 2 The largest bank, construction, electricity, and energy companies in the world, are CPC controlled entities, subject to the 5 year plans laid out by the central committee.
          • Workplace democracy in action in the CPC.
          • Is modern day china communist? Is it staying true to communist values?
          • Didn’t China go Capitalist with Deng Xiaoping? Didn’t it liberalize its economy? Is China’s drastic decrease in poverty a result of the increase in free market capitalist policies?
          • Is the CPC committed to communism?
          • The Long Game and Its Contradictions. Audiobook
          • The myth of Chinese state capitalism. Did Deng really betray Chinese socialism?
          • Tsinghua University- Is Socialism with Chinese Characteristics real socialism, or is it state Capitalism?
          • Isn’t China revisionist for having a capitalist sector of the economy, and working with capitalists? Why isn’t it fully planned like the USSR was?
          • Castro on why both China and Vietnam are socialist countries.
        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          6 days ago

          No, it isn’t. Public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy and the working classes control the state, it’s socialist. What do you think socialism and capitalism are? Vibes?

          • Jentu@lemmy.ml
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            5 days ago

            I’m convinced (based off interactions I’ve had on NextDoor) a lot of people think capitalism=uses money. But also that socialism/communism=failed/corrupted capitalism. China looking better than the USA nowadays means they have to be capitalist since they obviously aren’t failing.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              5 days ago

              That’s certainly how some people see it! Liberals look at China’s success and some try to twist that into a victory for capitalism, even if that doesn’t actually describe China’s success accurately.

    • zedcell@lemmygrad.ml
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      6 days ago

      And all states are authoritarian, so it loses its explanatory value and is a useless term when used to isolate and describe individual states.

    • Revolutionary_Apples@lemmy.ml
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      5 days ago

      I want you to really try to make a singular definition of Authoritarianism and Libertarianism that applies to all examples you would classify as authoritarian or libertarian. Is it theoretically possible for them to exist at the same time in the same place? Would that be a common definition? If not, why is your definition different and more importantly do you have enough evidence to justify having a different definition from the majority of people who use those terms?

      • Hawanja@lemmy.world
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        5 days ago

        I want you to really try to make a singular definition of Authoritarianism and Libertarianism that applies to all examples you would classify as authoritarian or libertarian.

        No.

        • Revolutionary_Apples@lemmy.ml
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          3 days ago

          Willful ignorance is not ignorance.

          • Hawanja@lemmy.world
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            3 days ago

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      • Hawanja@lemmy.world
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    • technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      5 days ago

      Yes like every state. Capitalism is entirely based on the violent control of people and things.

      • Hawanja@lemmy.world
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        5 days ago

        China is capitalist in all ways that matter.

        • QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml
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          5 days ago

          Have you considered doing research and applying analysis before just saying things?

          • Hawanja@lemmy.world
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            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              3 days ago

              Production is not capitalism.

            • QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml
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              5 days ago

              So you haven’t. I would recommend it. It’ll help you void these vibes based politics errors.

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                • QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml
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                  4 days ago

                  I think most of your (real) questions would be answered if you read Lenin and Chairman Mao and did some research on Socialism with Chinese Characteristics and the socialist market economy alongside the realities of the socialist transitionary period where many of the contradictions of capitalism remain as they are slowly synthesised and worked through. You’re clearly running on vibes for now and it’s leading you to not grasp the situation at hand properly.

                  • Hawanja@lemmy.world
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            • Marasenna@lemmygrad.ml
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              5 days ago

              So the answer to their question is “no”.

        • ZeroHora@lemmy.ml
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          5 days ago

          That’s a cute opinion. Did Epstein give it to you?

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            • QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml
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              4 days ago

              The nets were at foxconn in capitalist occupied Taiwan. You clearly have never been to China or researched China beyond just absorbing western headlines with no scepticism.

              • Hawanja@lemmy.world
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                • QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml
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                  4 days ago

                  Yeah, I mixed up the location of the foxconn factory fair catch. Doesn’t change the core point though.

                  Those nets were a Foxconn-specific response to a cluster of suicides at one company, not a national symbol of “China.” If you actually look at the data, China’s suicide rate is 8.9 per 100k, ranking around 65th globally. That’s lower than the US (15.6), Canada (9.4), Australia (13.1), UK (9.5), Japan (14.7), South Korea (20.6) and much of mainland Europe.

                  China makes everything from cheap trinkets to (most likely) the phone you’re typing this on. It’s not a monolith. Yes, working conditions were harsh during the early offshoring boom, that was the brutal calculus of catching up. But that strategy lifted nearly a billion people out of absolute poverty. China now has the world’s largest high-speed rail network, metro systems that dwarf most Western cities, and excess overtime has been explicitly ruled illegal by the Supreme Court, with enforcement ramping up.

                  On the system itself: China is in the socialist transitional period. Contradictions remain because capitalism is still hegemonic globally, but the commanding heights (finance, energy, telecoms, heavy industry) are publicly owned. The state isn’t a neutral arbiter; it’s the tool through which the dominant class enforces it’s power, in China that is the masses (the proletariat). Harvard’s Ash Center has tracked Chinese public opinion since 2003 and consistently finds approval of the central government above 90%. Chinese people don’t view their system through a Western liberal lens, they see democracy as whole-process people’s democracy: elections, consultation, grassroots feedback, policy adjustment, all integrated. The NPC has nearly 3,000 deputies, including representatives from all 55 minority groups, hundreds of frontline workers (manual labourers) and farmers, and workers from every sector. That’s structural representation. You can critique labor issues without falling back on orientalist tropes that flatten 1.4 billion people into a caricature.

                  • Hawanja@lemmy.world
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                    3 days ago

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