cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/50439521
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/33851469
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US citizens, are you planning to protest?
Protests within US are limited to major cities otherwise logistics are fucked due to suburb lay out of the most of the country.
Also, most of are just too docile, it ain’t an issue I til they personally get fucked.
That’s their point: America never does anything. People love to act like they stand for something, but cower at the slightest consequence or inconvenience.
We have the Russian “and then it got worse” do nothing attitude. We aren’t even gonna try to do anything till its far too late.
When we have protests large enough to get noticed, we get attacked by the police. Why should the protesters have to suffer? Make the oppressors suffer instead.
How
The state of New York is about to get a firsthand lesson in the Streisand Effect. They should have just charged him the same charge any normal killer would get - Second Degree Murder, which is the normal charge for premeditated murder in NY. First degree requires rare special circumstances, and the prosecutor chose to use a dubious “terrorism” modifier to up the charge to Murder 1. They just couldn’t help themselves, and they shot themselves in the foot.
The advantage to the prosecution to a simple Murder 2 charge is that motive really doesn’t matter much. They just have to prove that Luigi pulled the trigger. But with the terrorism modifier, the trial will no devolve into lengthy discussions about his motives and message. Not only have they now given him the world’s largest soapbox, but this will also give the defense an opportunity to make him much more sympathetic to the jury. With only a Murder 2 charge, the defense lawyer would have had to fight hard to sneak subtle hints into trial about Luigi’s motives. Now his motives will be a core part of the prosecution’s case.
With a simple Murder 2 trial, even jurors who thought Thompson got what he deserved could vote to convict based simply on the letter of the law. Luigi killed an evil man, but he still has to face the consequences like any other criminal. Now the jury will clearly see that the system isn’t treating him like any other criminal. The prosecutors, through their own actions, are making Luigi’s case for him - the justice system is completely rigged in favor of the rich and powerful, and the only way they can ever be held accountable is through violence.
All it takes is one juror of twelve to look around at the situation and say, “this is bullshit. I’m not going to convict.” Sure, they can try him again with a new jury if he’s not found unanimously not-guilty, but that jury will have an even greater risk of jury nullification. The longer this goes on, the more likely the prosecutor just has to offer him some sweetheart plea deal just to get him convicted of something. And each trial just elevates Mangione that much closer to literal Sainthood in the popular imagination.
Yes there are double standards but this is the wrong comparison to make that point.
Most school shooters are minors who are inelligible for the death penalty, and a large percentage don’t survive their own shooting. Either death by cop or suicide.
I have no love for insurance CEOs or our capital-first justice system, but if you’re gonna make a point don’t leave it open to be so easily picked apart.
My personal tinfoil hat is that they are seeking the death penalty so he accepts a deal. They are scared of jury nullification.
That isn’t tinfoil-hat at all. I was reading a news story recently about how worried they are that they’ll have trouble finding impartial jurors, since there’s so much sympathy for him.
How exactly does this work? How do they determine someone to be impartial? If they weed out people for having sympathy but keep people who don’t, aren’t they making that jury partial to finding him guilty?
The jury is supposed to be unbiased, i.e. not favoring one side or the other. Obviously, it’s impossible to get a jury that’s completely impartial, especially in a case that’s as high-profile as this one, but they have to try.
They ask the jurors questions and then each side has the opportunity to remove ones that they deem problematic.
That’s the quiet part out loud. They want a jury that will convict him.
Because it’s about sending a message. They’ve seen how popular this guy and his actions have become and are trying to throw everything at him so it puts off any copycats.
The death penalty has not been executed in NY/federal court for decades right? Doesn’t seem like an actual threat. What they want to achieve is a good negotiating position for a plea bargain because they known a trial will be a shitshow.
True, hopefully it will backfire.
Haven’t seen any copycats yet.
Plans take time. Better wait a few weeks until the CEOs start to relax again
Death penalty increases violence because murdering the person catching you becomes a way to increase your likelihood of surviving.
Death penalty backfires because it demonstrates fear for what this person keeps saying.
That would make him a martyr. I’m thinking the plan is to lock him up in max for life, then control the media narrative whenever his name comes up again.
Everyone who saw how this thing went down gonna have to spend their lives correcting false narratives they will weave.
We didn’t do know for snowden, public opinion got split altht funny enough it seems people have came around on Snowden.
Either way, luigi did not do anything wrong
I do believe it would be a tactical error on their part to give him the death penalty… make a real martyr
Yeah, killing him seems like the best way to get riots all over the country…
Hahaha yah right. If they kill him there we’ll be massive bitching online and that’s about it.
I had the same thought. Us North Americans are not used to sacrificing ourselves for the betterment of the future generations.
An interesting factoid. In Finnish language “väkivalta” means violence. It is a combination word:
väki = people, crowd, folk
valta = power, reign
So… in Finland “democracy” and “violence” are the same thing? xD
This is a dumb take. Since 2005 you cannot use capital punishment for minors see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roper_v._Simmons
Most school shooters are under 18, Luigi is 26.
Looking at this, the vast majority of them are adults: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States_by_death_toll
The far bigger reason is that most don’t survive to be prosecuted.
Because most school shooters aren’t adults.
Also, most school shooters don’t survive.
That doesn’t mean they can’t be tried as terrorists. The main problem here is actually whether or not the facts of the crime actually allow for a terrorism charge. Fact is, he had a manifesto (see ideological goals), and the shooting was a violent criminal act.
According to the FBI that’s all it takes. It may also be what is lacking in the case of some school shooters.
While I am generally on the side of “CEO FAFO”, I recognize that the problem here is that the FBI and the laws they follow are flawed (probably deliberately) in such a way that they only target those who target the wealthy.
Shooting up a school is an act of terrorism if you do it because you’re targeting a soft target in an attempt to hurt the local, state or federal government or you’re religiously motivated etc. But not if you were bullied.
There’s been plenty of over 18 mass shooters who also haven’t been charged with terrorism. And with each one there’s people who will say they don’t want the US to become more of a police state because they believe that counterterrorism techniques (which we use internationally) shouldn’t be used against the general population.
The federal government has a habit of overstepping the rights and freedoms of the general public any time they feel like they are under attack. We saw this with 9/11 and the Patriot act. So I can see their reasoning even if I don’t agree that mass shooters should be considered terrorists under the law.
Yeah, because the US “justice” system famously never treats juvenile defendants as adults in order to mete out draconian punishment that eliminates all chances for rehabilitation…
The US Supreme Court prevented people who committed crimes as juveniles from being executed a number of years ago. Trump’s group might change that, but for now it is the law. They technically cannot be incarcerated forever either.
They really gonna try to turn this guy into a martyr?
That.doesnt work out historically for them.
Good luck finding a jury to convict him of jaywalking.
Some homicides are self defence.
We’re in a pretty nice bubble here on Lemmy and the fediverse. There’s a LOT of bootlickers who happily want him convicted
Vigilante justice only feels nice when you agree with the Vigilante. The curse of internet bubbles is that people feel like everyone agrees. Bubbles build extreme values and a lack of understanding of other peoples values.
You become right. Others become bootlickers.
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For that very reason… He will never see a jury. This will be decided by ONE judge…
Who has already written his poinion
6th amendment guarantees the right to a jury trial. The only way he doesn’t see a jury is if he waives that right.
Lol this isn’t one of those.
FFS, it’s not even him, people need to stop accepting he is the killer. He is not, news made sure that pics from the killing footage were buried so people would forgot them, because when you compare them with Luigi, its obviously NOT him… And there is no doubt here, killer is smaller, whiter (like Irish white), slim eyebrows, and less muscle body shape than Luigi.
Why do people try to make him a martyr, when it is not even the killer.
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